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Européennes : Le Parti Pirate Suédois décolle dans les sondages
Guillaume Champeau -
publié le Mardi 26 Mai 2009 à 16h49 -
posté dans Société 2.0
 Si les élections européennes avaient lieu aujourd'hui, le Parti Pirate arriverait troisième dans les urnes suédoises. C'est le résultat d'un sondage publié la semaine dernière en Suède, qui confirme les projections réalisées par la London School of Economics.
Un nouveau sondage réalisé au pays nordique attribue au Parti Pirate (PiratPartiet) 7,9 % des intentions de vote, ce qui constitue un bond spectaculaire par rapport au dernier sondage du même institut, Demoskop, qui donnait au PP 3,4 % des voix. Un autre sondage réalisé par l'institut Novus Opinion pour la chaîne TV 4 accorde au Parti Pirate 6 % des voix, en progression de 0,4 points sur une semaine. Si le sondage de Demoskop se confirme, le PiratPartiet serait la troisième force politique du pays, devant les Démocrates Chrétiens (3,4 %), le Parti de Gauche (7,6 %), le Parti Vert (7,6 %), le Peuple (5,5 %), et le Parti du Centre (7,4 %). Un véritable séïsme politique, qui pourrait propulser au moins un membre du Parti Pirate au Parlement Européen, ce qui permettra de déposer et de défendre des amendements lors de la prochaine législature. Au début du mois, la London School of Economics et le Trinity College de Dublin avaient calculé, en mixant différents sondages et des modèles mathématiques, que le Parti Pirate pourrait arriver troisième du scrutin des élections européennes en Suède, avec 8,5 % des voix. Ce qui lui assurerait deux sièges. Une prévision que semblent aujourd'hui rejoindre les instituts de sondage. à lire aussi
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Raminagrobizz
le 26/05/2009 à 16:54
Toute l'Europe que n'aime pas Jean-François Copé, quoi ;-)
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Héhéhé voilà qui serait bien marrant de voi deux "Pirates" au parlement EU! Enfin des types capables de défendre une certaine vision d'un internet libre... J'aimerais bien voir ça!
Je crois que je vais plus suivre les résultats des élections suédoises que les françaises...
A force de forcer ils finiront par comprendre que la répression a ses limites.
Chez nous ils sont en pleine euphorie, tout fiers de meme vous voler votre voiture et vous raqueter en masquant le tout de "sécurité". En fait c'est eux qu'ils essaient de protéger en nous effrayant, jusqu'a ce qu'un grain de sable, tout petit grain de sable... En attendant chez nous, votez les extremes mais votez pour renvoyer tous ces panicards dans la poubelle Sarko-Lefebvrienne. 
super les pirates a la noix vont avoir leur mot à dire sur le prix du lait, la mise en place d'une armée commune, l'essai nucléaire de la corée du nord, l'inflation dans l'eu, le pouvoir d'achat dans l'UE... non mais soyons un peu serieux, y' pas que le droit d'auteur dans la vie ... faudrait voir à peu plus grand
Les écologisques sont sensés être qu'écologistes aussi, et ne pas prendre partie pour l'inflation bla bla... C'est pas pour ça qu'ils ne le font pas. Le parti pirate va se défoncer pour consolider son poids, et il y a des chances qu'ils étendent un peu leurs convictions, en laissant les droits d'auteurs le principal. It
ah parce que pêche chasse et traditions ils sont mieux renseignés a ce sujet? ou bien tu veux parler de MPF avec ces euro députés fantômes?
@notre_éleveur_de_troll Et je marche en plein dans la déjection.
Et tu croit que les autres sont plus qualifiés pour "délibérer sur le calibrage du cul des poules pour pondre des oeufs carrés" ? Ou la plaquette de beurre de 353 g ?  C'est mam Michu que va être contente de plus pouvoir faire son gâteau en coupant directement la plaquette en 2 pour avoir le bon poids.  Sans parler que nos chers lobbys industriel vont pouvoir plus facilement masquer l'augmentation des prix. 353g 1 €50 et 1 mois après 325g 1 €40.  Autant avoir 2 députés compétent sur 1 sujet que 20 incompétents sur tout. Je remarque que cette phrase pourrait aussi s'appliquer à notre hémicycle. [message édité par La bourrique le 26/05/2009 à 17:22
]
J'espère que le Parti Pirate Suédois aura un siège pour proposer des amendements et botter le cul aux discours sarko-menteurs et honteux de Copé et cie.
Les Suédois ont une chance inouïe ce 7 juin pour tenter de changer les choses.
Faudrait déjà que il y est une vrai campagne en France.
fcna2005, il y a effectivement plus important que le droit d'auteur dans la vie, mais quand une loi est votée pour mettre volontairement dans l'illégalité des millions de personnes, sans recours possible, sans besoin de preuve, cela devient du coup bien plus important et grave que le prix du lait...
Y a deja des trolls à la noix qui ont leur mot à dire, chacun son tour.
Sinon sur nos députés, dans la mesure où ils ne corrigent pas d'une virgule les textes de lois rédigés par les lobbys, où nos eurodéputés ne savent même pas à quoi sert leur travail tellement il est parcellisé pour éviter de reveiller leur conscience. Je vois mal comment le parti pirate peut faire pire ! Je caricature ? Allez voir là bas si j'y suis -> http://www.la-bas.or...id_article=1694 
fcna2005, au fond le parti pirate est un parti libéral de gauche prônant un libertarianisme modéré, il n'y a d'ailleurs pas que la question des droits d'auteurs et des brevets dans leur programme.
Sois tranquille ils sauront avoir un avis éclairé sur le prix du lait, le pouvoir d'achat ou la défense européenne.
Si tu prends la peine de regarder qui est tete de liste du parti pirate suedois, tu constateras que ce ne sont pas des "pirates a la noix" mais des gens ayants un solide competence, et meme pour certains de l experience en politique.
Sondage de l'IFOP :
UMP 26% PS 23% Modem 14,5% Les Verts 7% => Quand même plus de 2 français sur 3 qui sont contre le changement. on a les politiciens qu'on merite ... baisse du pouvoir d'achat, chomage, délocalisations, derives sarkozystes, gauche caviar, corruption, etc, finalement ce n'est que justice, bien fait pour notre tronche
1/4.  Le modem est anti-sarkozyste.  It 
En effet ! 
Il serait temps que les partis politiques d'opposition intègrent le poids des pirates dans leur discours et leur électorat potentiel.
Ben voilà, un BONO de perdu, un gars 10fois plus radicale de gagné.
Mais bon j'attend de voir... Car vu la corruption là haut, ça serait pas surprenant que des urnes se perdent...
si seulement ca suffisait ...
Pourtant je comprend pas... Y'a moins de personne qui regarde TF1, donc les chiffres devraient être moins important pour l'UMP que les dernières élections non?  Alors pourquoi c'est l'inverse?(16,64% en 2004) :'( Haaa j'ai oublié de compter les lecteurs du Figaro XD
Y'a de l'abstention aux européennes, donc c'est le noyau dur qui vote. Si y'a 50% d'abstention, alors c'est 13% des français pour l'UMP. It
C'pas le bon chiffre désolé 
Si seulement TF1 pouvait avoir une audience qui chute autant que ses bénéfices...http://www.ozap.com/actu/chiffre-affaires-premier-trimestre-2009-groupe-tf1/276062
Si au moins un membre de ce parti arrive à l'UE sa risque de créer un séisme dans le monde des droits d'auteurs !
Entre ça et avoir des gens aussi compétent que ce que l'on a actuellement, je vois pas trop la différence, tu m'excuseras. De plus, je dirais que ça devient presque un acte de défense de mettre des gens comme ceux du partie pirate au pouvoir, car ceux que tu juges compétents sont juste en train de démolir la démocratie pierre par pierre. Voila, maintenant que tu as eu le quota de réponses que tu souhaitais, tu peux partir. 
ahhhhhh genial, le mot d'humour du jour : fcna2005 is back !
parce que tu crois que les politiques et les lobby qui pourrissent joyeusement nos vies en ont quelques chose a foutre que les OGM ou les pesticides te fassent crever ? que la Corée du Nord fasse des essais de missiles ? Que les chinois bossent 13heures par jour pour fabriquer nos tel portables et nos Pc ?? Si ces gens là avaient une once de conscience ça se saurait depuis longtemps.
Je dois dire qu'à ce sujet, je suis tout à fait favorable. Au moins y'a encore des pays qui disent "merde" aux autres. "Fais ce que je dis, pas ce que je fais": Les grandes puissances ont le droit de posséder le nucléaire, mais pas les autres, tout ça pour assoir leur domination, ben je ne suis pas d'accord, car le monde ne va pas bien, et faut une opposition à ce fonctionnement. It 
+1 It, plus ça va et plus je constate que nous partageons beaucoup d'opinions ^_^ Je ne vais pas dire le nuke c'est bien, mais quand même, il ne faut pas abuser non plus avec les "mais que fait la communauté internationale?", ils se sont retirés du traité anti armement nucléaire, donc ils ont le droit de faire ce qu'ils veulent. Je n'ahdere pas à leurs idées générales; mais il faut avouer que d'un point de vue international, ce sont un peu eux les pirates face à l'ONU...
Exactement ! Y'a pas que le droit d'auteur dans la vie, y'a aussi le droit des personnes, du libre accès aux soins, à la nourriture... Le Parti s'intéresse également au scandale des brevets sur le vivant, version IRL des droits d'auteur, qui permet à de grosses entreprises (citons Monsanto, ou n'importe laquelle des entreprises pharmaceutiques...) de posséder des espèces végétales/microbiennes/animales, d'en faire payer le prix qu'elles veulent, de les distribuer ou bon leur semble et évitant soigneusement le développement d'une concurrence meilleur marché (et là je parle pas seulement de maïs, mais aussi, exemple parmi tant d'autres, de traitement anti-palu)... Puis avec la fortune accumulée de financer des campagnes électorales et de jouir d'une impunité telle que Monsanto (encore lui !) peut se permettre d'indexer une partie des espèces végétales d'Amazonie, et de traîner en cour manu-militari, le premier quidam qui tentera de toucher à sa check-list... Donc, oui, je pense que ce Parti est plus que apte à siéger à l'UE !
+1000 les gens de monsanto et leurs sbires mériteraient un passage sur la chaise électrique. les US ont tué des noirs pour moins que ça
C'est le nain de jardin qui va être content!!
Que du bonheur ces infos! Et ce n'est pas fini! maintenant qu'ils sont sur rails je leur promets beaucoup de réussite!!!! 
La derniere de l'UMP du Sarkophage, le 07 juin, jour des élections européennes," Journée Nationale de la pêche", les français pêcheront gratis....nous prendraient pas pour des cons...!!! Allez voter.
Bonjour Francais! Je suis un pirate Suedois ( mais Francais cest dificille pour moi). Ou est le Parti pirate Francais? cest un guerre pour liberté sur linternete (liberté, fraternité est egalité
. Wake up France! watch out for big brother 1984!
Merci pour le post.  Tu peux parler anglais si tu es plus à l'aise dans cette langue. Le parti pirate français, pour le moment, n'a aucun poids politique, ni d'opinion, donc pour le moment, il n'y en a pas vraiment. Malheureusement, la devise française est bafouée en ce moment, et on craint qu'elle ne soit oubliée. Thank you for posting. You could speak english if that's easier for you, we can understand.French pirate party, at the moment, have no political strength, nor of opinion at the moment, then, there is no real pirate party for the moment. Regrettably, the french slogan (liberté, égalité, fraternité) is scoffed at the moment, then we are affraid that could be forgotten It [message édité par It08 le 27/05/2009 à 00:18
]
Thank you for your answer, lt08, I would like to learn your beatiful language better in the future. On saturday We will have a party meeting in the town square in my little town, to try to convince people to vote for the pirate party. In Sweden we have always seen you french people on the television protesting about things, and we, on the other hand, have been very calm. However, we have many youngsters who have grown up with computers, and are used to freedom on the internet. Also, we do not like when the US/hollywood tells us what to do. It is people from right to left joined together, people from completely different camps, joined together for the fear of big brother 1984. Good luck to you, I know that things will change ;-)
The true problem is our president, M. Sarkozy, who doesn't want to hear citizens. Indeed, two months ago, more than 2 millions people were is the street to protest of Sarkozy's policy. He don't mind about social movement. Did Swedish follow the debates around the law named "hadopi"? We are careffully following the ThePirateBay trial, and the futur of the piratepartiet, and the software named "IPREdator", which will be a freedom access for the internet. We would like to have feedbacks of Swedish about the piratepartiet. Is it a new great thought for all the people, or, is it, for the moment, a movement of a small part of the population? French people 3> ThePirateBay and piratepartiet for their fight. It Edit: Your french language was understandable and good. [message édité par It08 le 27/05/2009 à 01:04
]
We're very pleased to see you here, really ! Your support is of great value for us. Please, give us appropriate links so we can in return support you in your efforts against lobbies attacks in Sweden ! We follow those matters carefully too.
Yes, french people are protesting, but not specifically against the recent liberticidal laws about internet regulation (only 1000 peoples protested against it in the streets). That is mainly due to the fact that french peoples are easily cheated by government propaganda, as usual As for our motto, well, actually we can only count on fraternity, really... for the rest, I'm afraid we can just forget it.
This is true for the whole world.
We wish you good luck too, but it won't help much. Maybe we should unite in some way, don't you think? This is not a french or swedish fight after all, but instead an european fight (at least, for instance). It's a shame but we must make lot of noise to be listened. First, please give us proper links in Sweden to support you in return, that's for instance the least we can do.
Bonjour encore. The European Union is suing us for not implementing all of their surveillance laws. We might have to pay a fee for not obeying. On this page you can see how many members we have compared to other parties:
http://www.piratpartiet.se/storlek We are piratpartiet pp, and the youth party is up. (I am in my forties so I am a member of pp)
This is the official party website: http://www.piratpartiet.se/
Rick Falkvinge is a leading member, in fact I think he was the founder http://forum.piratpa.../UserInfo2.aspx Here is the link to the board. why not learn some swedish ;-)
This a website by Christian Engström, he is "the party leader" I think. This is a grassroot movement. http://christianengs....wordpress.com/
Hoist the jolly roger, yarrr
Could you in return give me some useful French links about the subject matter? I will use my french dictionary ;-)
We hope that the piratepartiet will have 2 seats in european parliament.
Is there a chat or a forum in the website? Swedish language is incomprehensible for us, but we can have a simple translation by Google translator, for example. Good luck! WE ARE PIRATES! Yarrr ( )It
For news about our "beautifull" laws, there is:
- Numerama, this website - PCINpact, more difficult I think, because there's a lot of news (about PC/hardware ...) everyday. For the law named "Hadopi", this link explain the drawbacks . For the new law, which will be presented by Michelle Aliot-Marie. This law will be worst than Hadopi, but we don't know everything about it. We know that the official goal is to avoid webcrimes, but we know too that the real goal is to control the internet. (Website filtering, official spyware, total access to your private informations by the police ...). One of greatest french newpaper made a news about this law, but it's not available anymore, but another newpaper explain quickly the law. It [message édité par It08 le 27/05/2009 à 08:43
]
In the beginning there was the pirate bay, and then there was the antipiracy lobbygroup www.antipiratbyran.se ( they are our enemies). They called themselves "antipiratbyrà
¥n", then there was a pirate community: www.piratbyran.org , this website existed before the founding of the party, as a political forum and a place to learn about piracy technique.
For now, we just have jaimelesartistes on the left side, and la quadrature du net on the (b)right side...
Lobbys are insane. An employee of the biggest Television channel in France been fired because of his opinion about "Hadopi".
It
If you go to www.piratpartiet.se then click on "Agera" and then on "forum", there you will find the discussion in the party. All news are also commented.
Yes I have heard about Hadopi, scary things. Now begins the struggle for internet. I use Linux (fedora 10), free software is also a part of this movement in a way I think. www.gnu.org
Here you can buy som piracy clothes ;-) http://www.bytelove....-tpb/cat_3.html
;-) so this is a well developed underground movement, sort of
here is some piracy music http://www.__youtube...h?v=Me7xbTu57fg
http://www.__youtube...feature=related http://www.__youtube...5qqMs72o2M&NR=1 Dissa IPRED http://www.__youtube...h?v=JCzEdcjKbrc Dissa IPRED means abolish the IPRED law, a law that enables private companies to, by court, get ip numbers and threaten people to pay fees to them
I think that less than 1% of french know everything they have to know about this law. Medias just tell "This is a law to avoid illegal download ...", nothing about filtering, absence of innocence presumption, scoffed private life ... a lot of drawbacks. There is no speaking time in medias for Hadopi's opponents, only few artists and politicians, who are ok for the law.
We have to inform people, to open their eyes. It
ThePirateBay is a symbol for the Internet users of the whole world since the beggining of the trial.
They wanted to destroy it, they made a myth. Is swedish people fears IPRED? It [message édité par It08 le 27/05/2009 à 09:35
]
Source Il est évident que les Verts sont pour nous aussi les meilleurs défenseurs de nos libertés, voir comment et avec quel à propos Martine Billard, porte parole des Verts, s’est démenée pendant les débats Hadopi.
Clairement. Le PS, malgré Bloche et Paul notamment, qui sont au top, compte des abrutis (les ministres de l'ouverture, ou les umpistes infiltrés dans le parti), et c'est pas fiable, à coté de ça il reste DLR, présidé par Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, et dans une moindre mesure, le Modem, de François Bayrou (j'oublierai pas qu'il n'ait pris position qu'après le rejet le 9 avril.) (We're talking about our vote for european elections, we think that ecologist party, and an other little party are in the right way, but not the second biggest party, which is composed of traitors. We would like to vote for piratepartiet, but we can't. )It [message édité par It08 le 27/05/2009 à 09:46
]
Oui le ps a besoin d'un profond dépoussiérage, mais petit a petit on voit qui veut quoi et qui est prêt a tout pour. Alors, malheureusement pour ceux qui restent purs dans leurs coeurs, les autres tuent leurs efforts. Pour ce qui est des deux autres, je pense qu'ils s'inquiètent plus de leur avenir que du tien. [message édité par tomy13 le 27/05/2009 à 12:08
]
Remarque imbécile s'il en est. Elle peut s'appliquer à n'importe qui que l'on n'a pas encore vu à l'action. Si ça se trouve, sur tous ces sujets, ils sont peut-être moins incompétent que bien d'autres élus, et pas forcément qu'au parlement européen... Qui a dit: "à l'Elysée..." ???? ;-)
Thank you Biguanide very much for the links to websites. I will use my dictionary and learn some french ;-)
Here is the biggest french association for free software conservation : www.april.org Of course, they also expressed their severe anxiety about those laws. Free Software is deeply tied to Internet freedom. (Debian Linux for me)
Thank you Radamthe for the link. Here is something for you pirates:
In Sweden we have a big event every year when mostly younger people gather toghether in a big network to play computer games. At one of those events a young man went up on the stage to defend our enemies the antipiratbyrà ¥n.You can hear what the crowd thought about him, he soon left the stage.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjdLADcdfpU
oO A "punk" antipirate. The internet avoid frontiers, their laws are useless and their wish outdated. what does'nt destroy us makes us stronger. Resistance lives on! It
Wow, that's strong! Also thanks for all your previous links, I will check those (I kept it for the end of my daily boring tasks ).
it08 > un gars qui se fait une crête de Mr T et porte un super bracelet noir n'est pas forcement un punk, en l'occurence celui-la ne l'est pas car par définition un punk est anticapitalise. A contrario, comme disait Sinsemilia dans l'intro d'une de leurs chansons : "pas besoin d'avoir des dreads ou la crête sur la tête, pour être un rebel".
Ils pourraient rejoindre le groupe Verts/Alliance Libre Européenne au Parlement européen, je pense qu'ils ont pas mal d'objectifs communs.
Mhhh, je ne suis pas sûr que le groupe en question soit pour les remaniements de fond que propose le Parti Pirate suédois (notamment la suppression des brevets) que je cautionne également d'ailleurs, mais j'ai bien peur que ça prenne des décennies, voire des siècles...
hoj, pirate friends on the big internet sea. yarrr, I am sure that this mutiny will spread. We are all pirates.
http://www.__youtube...h?v=3AzpByR3MvI Nous sommes tous les pirates. Hoist the Jolly Roger!!!
I'll dye my hair in pink. It
We were informed that Lars Gustafsson supports PiratePartiet!
That's a great support for the party! I know that the other political partys in Sweden are trying to make the PiratePartiet fail. What is the feeling of the Swedish about PiratePartiet? ThePirateBay's trial (corruption)? It
I will try to answer your question. It is easy to be deceived by the fact that most of my Swedish friends are very interested in computers and know a lot about these questions. When I talk to people who do not sit by the computer all day many of them have sometimes copied something and consider that a minor crime. There has been a lot of strange acting from the authorities side concerning the piratebay.
http://sv.wikipedia..../The_Pirate_Bay Someone from the American government called to the Swedish government to demand of them to act against the piratebay. ( they have threaten with sanctions) A police who worked on the case got a well paid job working for some anti-piracy group. I think that most of the Swedish people think that the punishments were to hard, compared to other crimes ( they haven't murdered anyone). All this has been in the mainstream media. The last thing was that the judge had been in an anti-piracy organization, and that a lot of people want a new trial.
I think a lot of people are fed up with this circus, but how will they vote?
The older people will continue to vote on their old parties. Some people want to say that piracy is just stealing. The people who are active on the internet dominates the blogs and comments and wins the arguments ( in my opinion anyway). We also have this government surveillance organization called FRA. They used to spy on the Russians but now they can spy on all internet traffic. http://stoppafralagen.nu/ Our ordinary politicians try to calm the people with restriction on how to use the surveillance system, but we do not believe them.
A lot of us remember “IB-affären”. During the cold war the social democratic party used union bosses to register political opinions among the workers, and some people had their career destroyed because of those registers.
http://en.wikipedia....rmationsbyrà ¥n It is hard to know what most people think, we will have to tell them about the dangers. The Swedish also know that in Denmark a similar law to IPRED has resulted in the anti piracy mafia sending black mail letters to families with children. They have to pay or risk a trial and pay much more if they loose. I think that people have been forced to pay a lot of money.
the last link should have informationsbyrà
¥n as last part to work, but it was some teknical problem with the link because our swedish letter "à ¥"
Thank you for your answers
On saturday you'll explain to people what is PiratePartiet, we'll wait for feedbacks on this subject. It [message édité par It08 le 28/05/2009 à 19:44
]
I agree that youth is the main wall of defense against anti-piracy groups. But I think we must take care of not making too much cleavages between generations. In France for example, with the Hadopi law, we have seen Mr. Jean-Pierre Brard, a marxist of a certain age, making outstanding (maybe the best and funnier) contributions against that law in the house. He was just amazing, believe me. On the other side, the taleteller of the law, Mr. Franck Riester is maybe one of the youngest members of the house. Maybe Sweden has a younger demography, I don't know. But I would strongly advice you not to neglect older people and try to inform them of those matters. I know it can be hard, just try. Having some of them on your side would make you a lot more stronger with added credibility. I'm somewhat middle-age (I'm 35). I did not grew up with internet and I was about 19 or 20 years when I connected the first time. Before beeing a generation conflict, this is an ideology war which is going on.
It's definitely not. Duplicating enlightenment to infinite is far from what we can call "stealing". I personnally call it "spreading". Taking abusive margins on artists revenues IS stealing. That is what music/movie industries do. They are the criminals. That's what people must understand.
If we let them win that war, China will be an internet paradise compared to our countries.
Take Jesus example, who duplicated breads. That's a good example I think. Just watch and spread this movie . It 
I have my tee shirt
The other side of http://www.jaimelesartistes.fr/ is... http://www.jaimelesautistes.fr/ You have this site too http://manifestation...tre-hadopi.com/
Now I have done my homework, this is a report from a swedish pirate. I am very tired after standing many ours and delivering fliers with our program.
When I came to the town square, there were only three pirates there. This is a small town with a approximately 40 000 inhabitants, mostly working class. Some factories had to close down recently. Some younger people were positive about our message. Some of the older people were also very friendly and they really understood after some explanation. It really is difficult where to start, when some people do not know hardly anything about these questions! We have to realize that a lot of people do not spend ours before the computer, they hardly use any computers at all!!
I have been involved in many discussions. I had three persons, very aggressive, arguing that we only want to have free downloading, and that I didn't care for the artists. I said that I by shirts and cd:s from my favorite band (which happens to be Motörhead). I told them that I do not download anymore, I listen to streaming radio. I said that we have to choose what is most important, surveillance of everybody, or reform of the copyright laws. When I told them about Denmark, where the companies are sending threatening letters, and people are forced to pay approximately 30000 kr, or risk being sued and pay more, they did not believe me, they thought that I wanted to scare them. They treated me as some lunatic. Soon they will have the surveillance up their pretty safe asses!!
I do not want to scare anyone, I am not interested in being a payed politician. I am just doing this because I am scared about where we are going. It can be hard to be accused of things in an aggressive way but that is probably what one has to risk to stand on a town square and be a pirate! One of those aggressive, said that there was no danger for him because he did not to anything illegal. Many people think they are very safe and that they are protected by laws. I feel like I am doing this because I have to, I would rather be home and learn more about Linux instead. Sometimes when I am telling people about the dangers of surveillance it feels that I am some sort of paranoid lunatic when they are not worried at all, and that I should go take a beer or eat an ice cream and relax. ( I had not had any alcohol in 19 years, maybe I should have been drinking every weekend and not read too much on the internet, then I would be drinking beer in the sun now without any worries)
We had no protection from any police, but when a fascist spoke, a few weeks ago the whole square where full of policemen. We have not been i war since the 19th century. I think our last war was in 1809. So people here feels very safe. I will help with distribution of voting ballots and then I will go round and spread some leaflets in letterboxes. So my pirate friends, it is going to be a long battle.
I don't think surveillance is the problem. Let Big Brother watch the Internet, let them be fooled by thinking they will resolve their problem by supervising everything. The fact is that they cannot supervise everything. You want privacy? Just crypt your datas, that's all! But really, surveillance is not a problem. Anyway, who are we to claim that they should not supervise the net? I can supervise the net myself if I want. I have no more and no less power than them in this regard. Surveillance is not condemnable, control is. But the fact is that Internet is not controllable. That is precisely why I think they will lose that war. I'm confident What we must fight is their attempt to foul people about the legitimacy of they dying copyright concepts to legislate on internet. I feel like you're disappointed, but please, never EVER give up! Just be constant with your convictions, and we will just win in the end. Never forget this : "First, they ignore you. Then, they laugh at you. Then, they fight you. Then, you win." Do you know who said that ? Ghandi did
Ho yes it will. I believe it is a fight against capitalism and everything which is subversive about it, no more, no less. So yes, it will be long in that society, that's for sure... but if we are true with ourselves, they will lose, soon or later.
I just want to say that my friend reported from a nearby university town and it was completely different, a lot of pirates everywhere. Maybe it was more difficult in my small town. I was just sad because of some aggressive people at the end of the demo, some people said they would vote for us. Furthermore, in the part of my town where most people of low income lives, where youngsters use to kick down other parties signs, our sign has not even been touched.
Thank you very much for your feedback.
I think that in France, most of people think like aggressive people you describe. Unemployment, our president's insane policy about a lot of subject ... A lot of people don't mind about the internet. It
Hi lt08
I have thought more about what happened Saturday. I met three new pirate friends and I learned a lot. I can not change the whole world, of course. I will do my part, and on sunday I will make sure that there are voting ballots on the right place. I can do some work for what I think is important and try to have fun at the same time. It has been fun to write to you in France also, and it is fun to know about other countries. A pirate must remember to have fun also. Now I will continue learning about Linux and prepare for another battle. Yarrrr!!!!
Hi. Sorry, I was on holidays this weekend. We learned something too: Swedish pirates rocks. It 
Il est peut-être temps d'apprendre le suédois. En tout cas, je sais dire "chaise" et "cuisine" en suédois, grâce au catalogue Ikea.
Lol.
Bientôt microsoft va lancer un traducteur qui tiendra compte du contexte. Les prochaines générations n'auront même pas à apprendre les langues, y'aura des traducteurs oraux automatiques. *Voit le lobby des traducteurs voulant interdire cette technologie*. It
@pirat suedois
You think that the artists don't deserve a remuneration for the exploitation of their work on the web?
Thank you for your question prosécateur. I will give my personal subjective answer, this is not in any way any a statement from the Swedish Pirate Party. This is only my thoughts.
This is a difficult question, there are many suggestions on how to solve that question. Of course the artists deserve remuneration for their work like everybody else, like people working in factories and in hospitals. I support my artists by buying their records and visit their concerts. I am writing this wearing an official motörhead shirt, because this is my favorite band. I also have bought their cds. I think that we should support our artists. I do not have a good answer that will give everybody their right share, what ever that is. To be honest I seldom download music anymore, I listen instead to streaming radio from the Amarok, a media player in Linux. I have thousands of radio channels,and usually I listen to heavy metal from the 80s and 90s, streaming 24 hours a day. I do not need to download. The streaming of music is better for me! I personally think that an artist to day have to share his music on the internet or people will not know him or her. I only know artists that I hear on the streaming media, and those that my friends play.
I have chosen to be a pirate because I am very afraid of a society where everyone is under surveillance. I believe that internet and the file sharing technologies is now so advanced that we have to choose between artists rights all the way, or a totalitarian surveillance of everybody, where they monitor all traffic on the internet and the police searches through everybody's laptops when they want to, and every mp3 player is searched. This combined with heavy fines of the families. Even then I am not sure they can stop the file sharing. What will happen is that a lot of “dark net” technologies will appear. People will find methods to avoid surveillance and unfortunately, the bad guys will also use those methods. If the police would concentrate on “the ordinary criminals” on the internet, they would have much better success.
I believe that to download and investigate something for free is ok, if it is just for self educational purposes. To sell something that is not mine is not ok. It is not ok to make money on someone elses work. I think it is ok for instance to download a program to make websites with, to investigate and learn how to use it, just for personal use. If someone would begin to make money with the program then I think he or she should pay to the creators. If one uses it to make ones personal website and publish it, I think one should support the company, by buying the software (I use linux, and that is free, but anyway)
Photoshop for instance is very expensive. I think that there should be two licenses, one for home users, very cheap, a few dollars or free, and a more expensive license for companies. Let's face it, the makers of photoshop profit when a lot of people knows about there program, and knows how to use it.
There is a conflict of interests, and I do not have all the answers. This is difficult questions. Unfortunately the authorities do not want a discussion. The just want to hammer down people and hunt teenagers and everybody else like criminals. The result is very dangerous, with web filtering and surveillance. I am a pirate because I am also interested in history. Therefore I think that all this information from surveillance is very dangerous. We may end up with European totalitarian states. I believe that we have to choose between surveillance and old copyright laws, or new laws that protects our freedom. The artists makes a lot of money making concerts also. Many years ago many artists protested because they lost their work because of the gramophone.
For say it all, I would prefer to hear the voice of your party.
Yeah, but I talked about the exploitation of their work on the web. If you can download "freely" your fav motohead album and decide to buy the cd instead, it's cool, but it's just charity. It sound very middle age for me, when the artists had no rights.
You should, because if you really want freedom on the web, it's one of the main keys.
No difference for me between streaming and downloading. Internet, when it come to music and movies, is just a media.
Well, I also think that the web is an ok promotion tool, but the best way for promoting an artist is still the real world. Concert, performance, street, meeting real peoples in the music bizness. Now, it change nothing. Promotion or not, every media have to pay for the exploitation of a piece. Radio, TV, night clubs, bars, internet...
It's funny. In the countries where the music industry is weak, nobody talk about the blanket fee... It mean something, right?
The pedos, nazis and terrorists already use the encrypted network. What do you think? The states of all the nations of the world already use all the existing technical capacities for watching the web. No matter if it's legal or not.
Yeah, and? The ISP's customers are not the only ones to benefit from the artist's work. Far from it.
The price is out of topic, when you can grab the whole thing for "free".
Yes, a huge one, between the telecoms and the entertainment industry. It's a war for the control of the distributive network. I think you have no answers. Because what you ask is unacceptable for the entertainment industry. It's just another call to war. I think you already know it, and that the goal of many pirate parties is just to consolidate the position of the ISP's during the negociations with the entertainment industry. As I said, the price of freedom on the web is a fair remuneration for those who produce contents. You, obviously, don't care of that. BTW, What is the links between the swedish pirate party and the isp's?
Yes. The majors don't want to loose their control on the distributive network. The american's HQ, mainly the Hollywood ones, are very powerfull. Less than the telecoms, of course, but enough for making a war.
"Freedom on the web"? Hey, but it's precisely the key word of ISP's advertissement! In france, we even have an ISP called "Free". Freedom on the web is just a pretty picture on the tube's walls. You pay for your subscription, there are advertissements everywhere on the web (remember when each web sites had advertissemnt for porn?), the states watch the web since the beginning. Take a look at the top of this page. There is a price comparator for hardware gear. Physical players and stockage for... Well, we all know for what it is. It's how this pirate site earn money. Internet is big bucks ubber alles. And for me, pirates are ISP's customers way before "freedom fighters".
Please, it's some old propaganda rethoric. You know it's an out of topic argumentation.
Dear prosécateur
If you want to hear the voice if the swedish pirate party, You can follow this link www.piratpartiet.se All the Best, pirat Suedois
Sorry, I don't read the swedish. But of course, I already know the english version. I just hoped that you could enlighten me on certains points. But I understand you have nothing to add. It's sad, you're just a part of the problem, not of the solution.
Thanks for your answer anyway.
Dear prosécateur
Thank you for having this debate with me. I am a problem child ;-) I just searched for radio channels on the net and found 5800 in one click. you know it is out there. It is legal sites. I really think that downloading music from the pirate bay will soon be out of date. It is better to have a whole packet of streamed music. This is leagal. So together we should fight for the artists right to money from radio stations on the net! Do they get any money from that? I hope so.
You have a point in that it is the ISPs that are in charge. I do not know any link between the pirate party and Internet Service Providers, If you find such a link I would be interested. Please let me know then.
At this time, streaming is still a not so good business model for the owners of those sites. When it's legal, the artists earn only ridiculous money. Charging the customers upstream would be the only viable model. Right now, it's studied by the majors. It's called the "chorus" project. It's funny to see pirates (well, those in the know) who think it's a good idea. It tend to prove that they don't care about real freedom, end of major's monopole or justice for the artists. They just want to consume in peace.
I think I have more than one point, because I'm not, in any case, an extremist. You see? I have no evidence of a connection between pirates and isp's. I just higly suspect it. Isp's and hardware manufacturers and sellers are the main beneficiaries of streaming and downloading. Numerama itself is already an evidence that the pirate lobby and the hardware lobby are connected.
When I have time I will search for how much money the artists get from legal streaming radio channels. Maybe you can help me with that prosécateur.
All the Best, Pirat Suedois
Maybe a solution would be small radio stations where the artists could get most of the profits or all of the profits, maybe they can go together and put up a server of their own. I would like to pay for such a radio station, knowing that most of my money went to the artists.
Dear prosécateur
You have asked me questions, and I have tried to answer them (even if you do not like my answer). We should both be grateful to numerama for letting us have this conversation ;-) I would like to know how much surveillence, web filtering and restrictions are you prepare to accept. Do you draw a line somewhere, are you not in the least worried? If so I must say that I am glad for your sake.
ok we are both dependent on numerama to have this conversation, and numerama is dependent for people to come and read their text. You and me, we are both producing texts now and so we are in fact working for numerama for free, interesting.
It's not that I dislike your answers. I'm just disapointed. I don't know how far you're implicated with the swedish pirate party, but I found your point of view (don't take it in bad part, buddy) pretty naive and misenformed about the real strikes of this game. It's just the classic pirate proselytism. You must understand ( at this time, I always don't know if you're playin' or not) that the occidental society earn much more money with the web than entertainment. So, we will never see the web burned for the interests of music and movies sellers. If you believe that something like this is possible, you deeply lack of economic realism. Myself, I don't use majors rethoric. I hate majors, it's an atavism. Like dogs and cats. But I know that the artists have now some new enemies.
I have nothing against the way numerama earn money. It's cool if the hardware sellers make money with the work of the artists. If, of course, the artists have their part.
Ok I got your point that this may also be a commercial war between ISP,and companies selling hardware on one hand and the media industry on the other hand. I will contemplate on this. What is most important to me is freedom of expression ( We are both now dependent on numerama). Maybe it could be an important right to have a server at home? I am also concerned of our integrity. I am also worried that webfiltering will be extended to take away our freedom of expression. That is my motives (even if you will not believe me), All the Best, the very fact that you are debating me here means that you care for things, I also care for things and I am worried. I hope that you can calm me down. Have you read Orwell's 1984?
Ok you will never know if I am playing or not and I will never know if you are playing, or what your motives have. What is important here is this text, here and know. You say that the web will never burn, that calmed me a bit ;-) please continue. I am still worried about surveillance and webfiltering.
I do not mean to use rethoric, like a sofist ;-) I think we are having a conversation here, dialectic. Please continue to convince me that Orwell's 1984 is not round the corner.
I'm not here to convince anybody that web surveillance is not a problem. I've just said that surveillance exist since the very begining, and it's a total one. So yeah, have fear, you can. The appearance of liberty is a condition for making business in good conditions. Only the appearance. The war between the internet economy and the entertainment one is another question. The internet customers have to become the entertainment customers at the same time. Then, we'll see the end of the war. Of course, there are many ways to do it. And myself, I'm all for the blanket fee. It's my motive here. (no probs for 1984 )
Do you have a good link for information about blanket fee? I am searching.
Yes, but it's hard to find in english. This subject have been dig mostly by frenchs. The US majors dig it right now for their personnal interests. Here's a copy of a post by a french musician on an anglophonic forum tryin' to explain the blanket fee concept.
The majors version of the concept. http://www.wired.com...arner-music-gr/ http://www.techradar...ket-fee--454156
This is interesting. It is late and it will take a wile for me to understand it. I would be happy to pay a flat tax just to solve this hunt for downloading teenagers, even if I do not myself download much music. I am happy to listen to streaming radio. What I want is to be able to read things like political texts, and perhaps other stuff that is sensitive without being monitored always. Maybe that is not possible with the technology available? I do not want everything for free, I want a solution. If you are an artist that sings a politically sensitive song, will you be able to upload it to the p2p? Who will decide? Maybe there could be a free "download music p2p" for a tax, and another separate place on the net to have political discussions ( like this)? the place where political discussions takes place could maybe be free from monitoring (could that be arranged?), so that I could speak freely without always showing my ip?
This is new thoughts, all I want is political freedom, not freedom to have every heavy metal song for free. All the Best, Pirat Suedois
By the way, I am just a member of the pirate party, living in a small town. I do not have any position in the party.
I have thought of something. If there was a free place where it is only possible to have text, anonymous. That way there could not be child porn on that anonymous part of internet, only free political discussions. I am just thinking freely now.
@pirat suedois
Don't be fooled by the blanket fee. It's effectively a good approach in the new economy paradigm, but it is just a part of the solution, this is not the complete solution. The fight of the pirate parties (not only the piratepartiet) is more fundamental: it is about a reform of the intellectual property. That is the point. This is a fight against patents as they are actually defined in our society. And of course, this includes a lot of things which means this war will take longer than most people think. see the piratepartiet principles.
Yes of course Radamanthe, you are right. One part of the problem is when they are hunting teenagers for downloading music. That was the problem that I mostly discussed here, and the problem that I thought could be solved with blanket fee. The reform of intellectual property is something else. Thank you for knowing so much about the principles of piratpartiet ;-)
I would also be interested in finding an end to the "war"about patents. I like the gpl licence (linux). Abolishing patents would change the economic landscape. Of course the third world could more easily produce medicines, and patents for electric cars will be free. I will start reading more about patents. For me the most important question is political freedom and integrity. That is how I started, I will read more about the patent question.
Image intéressante trouvée sur le site du Piratepartiet, montrant l'évolution des sondages, des différents instituts de sondages:
[attachment=961 p_polls...09_06_05.png]It
I have distributed election ballots. I have voted by post a few days before. I had a discussion with some politician on the phone about the position of our ballots. I finally was allowed to put them in the same "box" as the others.
we might get two pirates if Lissabon treaty gets through, I have heard of such a rule. We are now a political force that can grow.
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"D'abord ils vous ignorent, ensuite ils vous raillent, ensuite ils vous combattent et enfin, vous gagnez". Ce célèbre théorème de Gandhi va-t-il se transformer en prophétie pour la défense de la légalisation des échanges d'œuvres culturelles sur Internet ? En Suède, c'est bien parti pour.
